V.1 Discrimination Against Gays?

[Diverse Melody]

First off, I am not "attacking gays" with this post. I am testifying of what the Bible says. I'm not telling you how to live your life, but how God wants it lived. I didn't specifically pick homosexuality as a topic for the first devotional I posted, it's just that I decided to do one today and when I saw the article on yahoo, I felt this was what it needed to be on.

Second, this is based on THIS article. I suggest you read it first to better understand this devotional.

So, here's the deal. Rick Warren, the senior pastor of Saddleback Church in California, speaks in Obama's inauguration. He says he's against abortion, and against gay marriage. Well, now both Warren and Obama are being attacked for "discrimination against gays."

Discrimination. This word is thrown around without any actual meaning. If you take it the way the gay rights people are saying, then you're guilty of discriminating against thieves and murderers! No, gays aren't thieves and murderers. But, discrimination can just as easily be used in this way. Let's look at something.

There are plenty of verses in the Bible that show God's anger at homosexuality.

Corinthians 6:8-10:

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

This is just one them, but there are several both in the old testament and the new testament.

Now, God does indeed love homosexuals, but he doesn't love the act of BEING homosexual. They are not what he intended. It's the same with murder. God loves murderers, but he doesn't like the act of murdering.

So, it's discriminating to ban gay marriages. Right. Just like it's discriminating to put a murderer in jail. It's discriminating to fine a thief. How about this one? It's discriminating to put child molesters in jail.

But it's different! Gay marriage doesn't hurt anyone. Murderer, thievery, and child molesting does.

Really? So gay marriage doesn't hurt God? It doesn't hurt the children that hear about it and think it's okay to be gay? It doesn't hurt those that it affects? Sin is what sends people to Hell. They may not go specifically for homosexuality, but it still has a part in sending someone to Hell.

What about the Christian gays? Do they go to Hell?

If they truly are a saved Christian, no, they don't. But, Romans 12:19 says "19 Never take revenge, my friends, but instead let God's anger do it. For the scripture says, "I will take revenge, I will pay back, says the Lord."" Sin doesn't go unpunished, even for the Christian. "What goes around comes around." If you sin, it will in some way shape or form come back to you. All Christians still sin. But, they have been saved from Hell. This is why emphasis should be put on the unsaved gays, rather than the Christian gays. Not to say that that you shouldn't "correct your brother if he sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him." (Luke 17:3) Saying you are a gay Christian is like saying you are a murdering Christian. Sin is sin. There is no sin worse than another. But, sin is what is dragging the unsaved down. Worry about them first, then work on correcting your brother.

I've heard the "it's discrimination" phrase referring to gays many times, and it's not a good thing. I don't too much mind if they remove the ban on gay marriage. I'd rather that not happen, but, whether they are married or not, if they are in a gay relationship, they are sinning. In my mind, this means that if they wanna further involve themselves in the sin, that's their choice. What I am NOT okay with is how so many Christians and non-Christians alike say "it's okay to be gay." That's the real problem I have with gay marriage. If they allow it, that will only encourage kids who hear about it.

They wrap homosexuality up in a pretty package with ribbon and bow, but that doesn't change what it is. They throw daggers at those who oppose it, but that doesn't change what it is.

“Your invitation to Reverend Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at your inauguration is a genuine blow to LGBT Americans,” the president of Human Rights Campaign, Joe Solomonese, wrote Obama Wednesday. “[W]e feel a deep level of disrespect when one of architects and promoters of an anti-gay agenda is given the prominence and the pulpit of your historic nomination.”

Wow. This guy's got a nice way of speaking. He really makes it sound like "anti-gays" are really evil, deceiving, intolerable (bet you've heard that one a lot too), heartless low-lifes. But you know what? It's still sin.

The editor of the Washington Blade, Kevin Naff, called the choice “Obama’s first big mistake.”

“His presence on the inauguration stand is a slap in the faces of the millions of GLBT voters who so enthusiastically supported him,” Naff wrote, referring to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people. “This tone-deafness to our concerns must not be tolerated. We have just endured eight years of endless assaults on our dignity and equality from a president beholden to bigoted conservative Christians. The election was supposed to have ended that era. It appears otherwise.”

Oops, our bad. Sorry Mr. Naff, next time we'll stand on a really tall tree at the election and yell "Gay is good! And so is murdering and thievery." I mean look, God has shown be how to love everyone. In fact, I've even been able to begin learning to love my ex-friends who I've been angry with for quite a while. I don't even know Kevin Naff, but I love him and respect him just the same. But, if he thinks that we are intolerable toward other religions and acts such as homosexuality, he is mistaken. I've heard that ploy so many times lately... Yes, some Christian do a poor job and are extremely intolerable to others. But, those that are not, respect the other persons opinions. For example, I am a Christian. I believe those who do not have a personal relationship with Jesus will go to Hell. I believe homosexuality is wrong. BUT, I respect people with those opinions. I will tell them what I believe, then leave them to make their own choice and pray that they will make the right one (which I believe is a personal relationship with Jesus followed by becoming an ex-gay.) I'm not going to sit around arguing with them and trying to force them into anything because A. it won't work and B. it's not right.

“Rick Warren gets plenty of attention through his books and media appearances. He doesn’t need or deserve this position of honor,” said the president of People for the American Way, Kathryn Kolbert, who described Warren as “someone who has in recent weeks actively promoted legalized discrimination and denigrated the lives and relationships of millions of Americans.”

Well, it's obvious Kolbert doesn't have the love of God in her life. "He doesn’t need or deserve this position of honor" Man that one just gets me. That's just outright rude and heartless.

“Rick Warren did a real disservice to gay families in California and across the country by casually supporting our continued exclusion from marriage,” said the founder of the pro-same sex marriage Freedom to Marry, Evan Wolfson. “I hope in the spirit of the new era that’s dawning, he will open his heart and speak to all Americans about inclusion and our country’s commitment to equality

He did a disservice by trying to warn you of the sin you are in. He showed he had an open heart by doing such. Equality isn't done by allowing sin to run rampant. It's by loving each other through the good, the bad, the righteous, and the sinful.

Psalms 52:2:

"Your tongue devises destruction, Like a sharp razor, O worker of deceit."

Those quotes from the article were pretty nasty and deceitful. What I want to know is since when is it such a horrible thing to share your opinions? Whenever Christians share their opinions about homosexuality, they get bashed. Opinions are open for discussion. It's a free country. Apparently, they fail to realize this.

Discrimination... What will they think of next......


Specific Discussion Question: Is what Warren said discrimination? Did he have a right to speak his opinions? Do you think those that responded needed to be that rude?

[Crash]

Question: Is what Warren said discrimination? Did he have a right to speak his opinions?

Discrimination isn't what he said, but what he supports - the ban against same-sex marriages. He has a right to speak his opinions, but with the knowledge that it may have negative consequences. People have the right to speak their opinions, but also the responsibility to decide if it is wise to do so. Sometimes, if your opinion will cause anger and conflict, it is better to keep your opinion to yourself. Of course, as a pastor, he doesn't have much choice but to speak his opinion - it is his calling in life to "save" people, and if he believes speaking his opinion will do that, all the better for him.

[Diverse Melody]

"He has a right to speak his opinions, but with the knowledge that it may have negative consequences."

I totally agree with that. I imagine he probably did know that people wouldn't like it, but, as Christians, we believe we need to tell what the Bible says. Sometimes it's wise not to say something, but, again as you said, he thought it was what he needed to do and in the same situation, I would have done the same. I don't know exactly how he would have worded it, but I would have done so in the nicest way possible, explaining that I don't dislike gays and I treat them the same as I do everyone else.

I don't think he so much believed it would save people, but that it would sorta "put them back on the path." I'm sure there are some Christians that are gay but they still go to Heaven. It's just another thing I see that gets in the way. For example, usually the biggest thing with people, especially with me, that keeps them from deciding if they want to be a Christian or not is that they are too selfish to put their wants aside. I freely admit it. I AM a very selfish person. I'm not proud of it, and I'm working to change it, but it's a slow process. Besides, no matter how much a person is selfless, I think everyone still has a little selfishness in them.

You basically said just what I was going to say (sure I typed the whole thing but I was still gonna join the discussion after someone posted lol.) I can see how it's somewhat discrimination, but, as I said, to me it's like saying if a thief or murderer is put in jail then that's discriminating to them. Now if a Christian or anyone else is being rude to gays, bis, pans, poly, etc etc, then yes I totally agree that is discrimination. Jesus himself stayed with and was friends with cheating tax collectors, prostitutes, and more. It's what the Bible all comes down to. Love God, and treat everyone equally; love everyone. The Bible called the greatest commandment to love others as you love yourself. I think far too many people forget that. I mean we're not perfect, we're not going to follow that rule all the time, try as we might, but so many people DON'T try.

Plus, I don't believe the thing about they are born that way. I think maybe they were born, say, more likely to become gay, like how I'm more likely to be selfish than other people, but actually born that way I don't think so. The scientists haven't even settled on that one. But I just don't think God would allow someone to be born that way if it's a sin.

(Oh and kinda off topic, but after being completely insulted and cursed out my most everyone in my guild on perfect world JUST because I said a few things about God, thank you again Crash for being someone that can debate without resorting to insults. I've been insulted and cursed out before but never as bad as yesterday.... I'm not easily upset, but I must say, some of the things they said hurt. But really I can't say how glad I am that you actually know how to put up a good argument and be nice about it.)